If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
I went through this when I was first studying Latin and Greek. Took me a long time to accept that there wasn't one perfect translation and that each word could be many things.
What, do you mean that King James's Authorised Version of the Bible is not, as I had always thought, the Real and Proper Bible, as translated by God from the original Latin?
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
It continues to be hilarious in a bad way how people will suggest substitutes to you for “complicated” while completely ignoring the two very important constraints you mentioned once again in this post: metre and pacing. To match the length of the poem while *reducing* the number of syllables in each line and strictly maintaining iambic pentameter is to set yourself a VERY hard problem, to which your answer (your translation) is extremely impressive to anyone who has engaged with the Greek. “Complicated” is the best choice. No suggestion I’ve seen holds a candle to it given the constraints of your project.
But as you rightly say, it is just one of thousands upon thousands of decisions you had to make in the translation process, and still people will proceed as if it’s the only thing in your version worth talking about. And I guess it is, if the problem they’ve set for themselves is to read just that first line.
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
When I'm reading a translation of anything where I am really interested in comprehending the original meaning of a particularword or phrase, I like to consult more than one translation. It seems to me that all translations involve multi-dimensional problems, with different considerations pulling in different directions. So no translation of any particular word or phrase can ever hit the bullseye, but three or four attempts can surround the meaning.
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
Your explanation made me think of the word 'many-sided', which is mostly positive but carries a hint of concealment. Was that an option you considered and discarded?
Yes. I didn't think it worked all that well. He's not a polyhedron. The extra alliteration is sonically less good, imho, and it doesn't really work to suggest the journey. It's not impossible, just didn't think it was my best option.
If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
I went through this when I was first studying Latin and Greek. Took me a long time to accept that there wasn't one perfect translation and that each word could be many things.
lol I screened the sentences before parsing them for him 🤣 perfectly innocent exercise in “presque” and “jusqu’à”
What, do you mean that King James's Authorised Version of the Bible is not, as I had always thought, the Real and Proper Bible, as translated by God from the original Latin?
I loved reading this and your explanation for choosing the word "complicated"!
Thank you for this essay; it's a wonderful look both into the process and the range of alternatives.
I admit, since you mention song lyrics, the word "complicated" echoes reminds me of the line from the Barenaked Ladies song, "The Flag"
"They're complicated people / Leading complicated lives / And he complicates their problems / Telling complicated lies"
It has that echo for me too. The Flag is one of my favorite Barenaked Ladies Songs. And I think it enriches my experience of The Odyssey.
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
It continues to be hilarious in a bad way how people will suggest substitutes to you for “complicated” while completely ignoring the two very important constraints you mentioned once again in this post: metre and pacing. To match the length of the poem while *reducing* the number of syllables in each line and strictly maintaining iambic pentameter is to set yourself a VERY hard problem, to which your answer (your translation) is extremely impressive to anyone who has engaged with the Greek. “Complicated” is the best choice. No suggestion I’ve seen holds a candle to it given the constraints of your project.
But as you rightly say, it is just one of thousands upon thousands of decisions you had to make in the translation process, and still people will proceed as if it’s the only thing in your version worth talking about. And I guess it is, if the problem they’ve set for themselves is to read just that first line.
I really enjoyed this post, nonetheless!
Some people also talk about 'canapés' in Book 4
Thank you so much for this - and I absolutely adore your reading of Odysseus against Avril Lavigne's lyrics!
But when are you going to translate the Shaft theme into Homeric Greek?
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
When I'm reading a translation of anything where I am really interested in comprehending the original meaning of a particularword or phrase, I like to consult more than one translation. It seems to me that all translations involve multi-dimensional problems, with different considerations pulling in different directions. So no translation of any particular word or phrase can ever hit the bullseye, but three or four attempts can surround the meaning.
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
This is so interesting, I love seeing the process behind your translation choices! Thanks for writing this!
Your explanation made me think of the word 'many-sided', which is mostly positive but carries a hint of concealment. Was that an option you considered and discarded?
Yes. I didn't think it worked all that well. He's not a polyhedron. The extra alliteration is sonically less good, imho, and it doesn't really work to suggest the journey. It's not impossible, just didn't think it was my best option.
Your comment made me exclaim, "Odysseus is a dude like a rubik's cube," which is not quite right either, but since thought was fun.
Absolutely fascinating post. Thank you. It reminded me of my husband's favourite quote from 'Sweet Home Alabama' : "Your momma's a complex woman".
Makes my head explode. The only alternative I could come up with is “man with many moves.”