I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
Your explanation made me think of the word 'many-sided', which is mostly positive but carries a hint of concealment. Was that an option you considered and discarded?
Yes. I didn't think it worked all that well. He's not a polyhedron. The extra alliteration is sonically less good, imho, and it doesn't really work to suggest the journey. It's not impossible, just didn't think it was my best option.
Fascinating how _tropos_ came down to the Slavic languages as тропá (path), as well as to the English as "trope"; in current parlance _polytropos_ could be rendered as "multivectoral" (admittedly not poetic at all)
Fascinating to read about the process here and to get a glimpse of just how complicated (ha) translating an epic like the Odyssey is. When you first laid out the issue of polytropos my first reaction was twisty so it was then very interesting for you to explain why you didn't go for this.
I must admit I still like the sound "a twisty man" (lovely sense of movement), "a twisted man" (deformed by his experiences), or maybe even a "Tell me about a man twisting around" (self-transforming and moving, but also a worm on the hook of fate). But, it feels almost churlish to say this given the amount of your thought that went into complicated and how well that choice worked...
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
I googled “complicated man” and, discarding the many references to this very controversy, got:
The book, “Shaft Volume 1: A Complicated Man”
The book, “A Complicated Man: The Life of Bill Clinton as Told by Those Who Know Him”
Someone on the “American Dad” (animated show) subreddit who enjoyed the line, “You are a complicated man, Smith, I would love to do mushrooms with you .”
I would happily do mushrooms with Odysseus, Shaft or Bill Clinton. Even better, with all three at once.
This is so great. I did a tiny bit of translation of Old English back at uni - didn't take to it, but always loved learning about the processes and thinking of translators, the artistry of translating, and this was such a wonderful example of that. To my shame, I've never read the Odyssey - gonna rectify that and have just bought your translation!
I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
lol I screened the sentences before parsing them for him 🤣 perfectly innocent exercise in “presque” and “jusqu’à”
I loved reading this and your explanation for choosing the word "complicated"!
If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
Thank you for this essay; it's a wonderful look both into the process and the range of alternatives.
I admit, since you mention song lyrics, the word "complicated" echoes reminds me of the line from the Barenaked Ladies song, "The Flag"
"They're complicated people / Leading complicated lives / And he complicates their problems / Telling complicated lies"
It has that echo for me too. The Flag is one of my favorite Barenaked Ladies Songs. And I think it enriches my experience of The Odyssey.
But when are you going to translate the Shaft theme into Homeric Greek?
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
Your explanation made me think of the word 'many-sided', which is mostly positive but carries a hint of concealment. Was that an option you considered and discarded?
Yes. I didn't think it worked all that well. He's not a polyhedron. The extra alliteration is sonically less good, imho, and it doesn't really work to suggest the journey. It's not impossible, just didn't think it was my best option.
Fascinating how _tropos_ came down to the Slavic languages as тропá (path), as well as to the English as "trope"; in current parlance _polytropos_ could be rendered as "multivectoral" (admittedly not poetic at all)
That would certainly be an unusual word to find in the first line!
Absolutely fascinating post. Thank you. It reminded me of my husband's favourite quote from 'Sweet Home Alabama' : "Your momma's a complex woman".
Fascinating to read about the process here and to get a glimpse of just how complicated (ha) translating an epic like the Odyssey is. When you first laid out the issue of polytropos my first reaction was twisty so it was then very interesting for you to explain why you didn't go for this.
I must admit I still like the sound "a twisty man" (lovely sense of movement), "a twisted man" (deformed by his experiences), or maybe even a "Tell me about a man twisting around" (self-transforming and moving, but also a worm on the hook of fate). But, it feels almost churlish to say this given the amount of your thought that went into complicated and how well that choice worked...
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
I googled “complicated man” and, discarding the many references to this very controversy, got:
The book, “Shaft Volume 1: A Complicated Man”
The book, “A Complicated Man: The Life of Bill Clinton as Told by Those Who Know Him”
Someone on the “American Dad” (animated show) subreddit who enjoyed the line, “You are a complicated man, Smith, I would love to do mushrooms with you .”
I would happily do mushrooms with Odysseus, Shaft or Bill Clinton. Even better, with all three at once.
This is so great. I did a tiny bit of translation of Old English back at uni - didn't take to it, but always loved learning about the processes and thinking of translators, the artistry of translating, and this was such a wonderful example of that. To my shame, I've never read the Odyssey - gonna rectify that and have just bought your translation!
Makes my head explode. The only alternative I could come up with is “man with many moves.”