If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
What, do you mean that King James's Authorised Version of the Bible is not, as I had always thought, the Real and Proper Bible, as translated by God from the original Latin?
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
It continues to be hilarious in a bad way how people will suggest substitutes to you for “complicated” while completely ignoring the two very important constraints you mentioned once again in this post: metre and pacing. To match the length of the poem while *reducing* the number of syllables in each line and strictly maintaining iambic pentameter is to set yourself a VERY hard problem, to which your answer (your translation) is extremely impressive to anyone who has engaged with the Greek. “Complicated” is the best choice. No suggestion I’ve seen holds a candle to it given the constraints of your project.
But as you rightly say, it is just one of thousands upon thousands of decisions you had to make in the translation process, and still people will proceed as if it’s the only thing in your version worth talking about. And I guess it is, if the problem they’ve set for themselves is to read just that first line.
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
I tried different translations for decades to get through it, but never could.
Yours I went through in less than a week!
You had me at the first line. "Complicated" resonates with people in this day just as much as "polytropos" would have back then. And it is very intriguing, making you want to read on.
Absolutely fascinating! What a joy to be enlightened on the sheer complexity (can’t think of a better word right now) of translation.
I’m currently reading Lattimore’s translation of The Iliad and you’ve really encouraged me to take more care appreciating the nuances behind the descriptions of characters.
After reading your first three posts, I ordered your Odyssey translation, the Norton Critical Edition. It came Saturday and I was so glad to see that you are the volume's editor too. I have something to look forward to.
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
Fascinating how _tropos_ came down to the Slavic languages as тропá (path), as well as to the English as "trope"; in current parlance _polytropos_ could be rendered as "multivectoral" (admittedly not poetic at all)
If we needed it, more evidence that the role of translator is so underappreciated! When I'm reading a novel in translation, I tend to give all credit to the novelist and rarely look up the name of the translator, as though they were just laboriously and uncreatively substituting words. Your detailed insight into the process is enough to snap anyone out of that lazy thinking. I never imagined, for example, that the translator of the first line of the Odyssey would have to worry about allusions to Shaft 😂
I think people struggle with the realization that translation isn’t a simple 1:1 decoding exercise, especially if it’s their first encounter with a translated work. Or they maybe think that it COULD be a 1:1 decoding exercise if only the translated were rigorously honest enough.
This has been a bit of a struggle with my 10 year old — we not infrequently encounter different translations of things (the Iliad, the Bible, etc) and he really wants one translation to be “correct” compared to the others, which are perhaps creative retellings but not “the original.” (I think the people who simply insist that the KJV or Douay-Rheims translations of the Bible are the “correct” ones are sort of thinking like this.)
It took several days of intermittently returning to the conversation, but I eventually convinced him by walking him through a few sentences in a French novel. By the time we got to me pulling Houllebecq off the shelf (wouldn’t be my choice for a child it was just on hand lol) I was more than a little exasperated that he *just wouldn’t believe me* — but tbh upon further reflection I remembered thinking that way myself when I was about his age. I wonder if I too would still sort of unconsciously assume that language worked like that if I’d never really tried to learn another language. And I wonder if that’s where some of the more obtuse criticism comes from.
Well put. Many people far older than 10 still have that yearning for THE translation, and that notion of the 1:1 decoding. How very brave, to read Houllebecq with a child – it could have gone very badly indeed.
lol I screened the sentences before parsing them for him 🤣 perfectly innocent exercise in “presque” and “jusqu’à”
What, do you mean that King James's Authorised Version of the Bible is not, as I had always thought, the Real and Proper Bible, as translated by God from the original Latin?
I loved reading this and your explanation for choosing the word "complicated"!
Thank you for this essay; it's a wonderful look both into the process and the range of alternatives.
I admit, since you mention song lyrics, the word "complicated" echoes reminds me of the line from the Barenaked Ladies song, "The Flag"
"They're complicated people / Leading complicated lives / And he complicates their problems / Telling complicated lies"
It has that echo for me too. The Flag is one of my favorite Barenaked Ladies Songs. And I think it enriches my experience of The Odyssey.
i loved the word “complicated” because it caught me so off guard which honestly is what i felt odysseus did for a large part of the odyssey. thanks for sharing the logic!
It continues to be hilarious in a bad way how people will suggest substitutes to you for “complicated” while completely ignoring the two very important constraints you mentioned once again in this post: metre and pacing. To match the length of the poem while *reducing* the number of syllables in each line and strictly maintaining iambic pentameter is to set yourself a VERY hard problem, to which your answer (your translation) is extremely impressive to anyone who has engaged with the Greek. “Complicated” is the best choice. No suggestion I’ve seen holds a candle to it given the constraints of your project.
But as you rightly say, it is just one of thousands upon thousands of decisions you had to make in the translation process, and still people will proceed as if it’s the only thing in your version worth talking about. And I guess it is, if the problem they’ve set for themselves is to read just that first line.
I really enjoyed this post, nonetheless!
Some people also talk about 'canapés' in Book 4
Thank you so much for sharing your translation process! I think if more people studied Ancient Greek and/or meter “complicated” wouldn’t be such a controversy. Stephen Fry’s book “The Ode Less Travelled” has a nice tutorial on writing in iambic pentameter and it’s not easy!
I hit that word and sat on it for the rest of my reading of your translation. Hugh Kenner comments that “Odysseus has a near-monopoly on the Homeric epithets to poly-.” and yet for us to easily walk the invisible 3d maze that is this work is itself Odyssean. In a life story of a man who survived the many obstacles set up by the gods, limitations erect themselves whack-a-mole word after translated word. Yep, The job of a translator is “complicated”. From where I sat, you breathed life into a work situated in a world that is both humanly translucent and culturally opaque. Thank you.
I tried different translations for decades to get through it, but never could.
Yours I went through in less than a week!
You had me at the first line. "Complicated" resonates with people in this day just as much as "polytropos" would have back then. And it is very intriguing, making you want to read on.
Absolutely fascinating! What a joy to be enlightened on the sheer complexity (can’t think of a better word right now) of translation.
I’m currently reading Lattimore’s translation of The Iliad and you’ve really encouraged me to take more care appreciating the nuances behind the descriptions of characters.
I’ll be straight onto your Odyssey afterwards.
Thank you so much for this - and I absolutely adore your reading of Odysseus against Avril Lavigne's lyrics!
After reading your first three posts, I ordered your Odyssey translation, the Norton Critical Edition. It came Saturday and I was so glad to see that you are the volume's editor too. I have something to look forward to.
But when are you going to translate the Shaft theme into Homeric Greek?
As someone who both studied ancient Greek and went to see Avril Lavigne in concert a mere week ago (her first record is over 20 years old, HOW), this post *delighted* me!
Fascinating how _tropos_ came down to the Slavic languages as тропá (path), as well as to the English as "trope"; in current parlance _polytropos_ could be rendered as "multivectoral" (admittedly not poetic at all)
That would certainly be an unusual word to find in the first line!
Makes my head explode. The only alternative I could come up with is “man with many moves.”